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LIVE TALK WITH THE EDITOR

Our Country, Our Vote, and Your Say

Meet Nation editor Tulsathit Taptim who will be with you all day to discuss the general election's results and related developments.



Our Country, Our Vote, and Your Say

Hello everyone. Nice meeting you on one of the biggest days in modern Thai political history. From TV reports and our roaming journalists, it looks like we are heading to a very high voter turn-out. But then again, we have seen quite a few false dawns, especially in Bangkok. I would say a 70 per cent turn-out for the capital would be a great success.

I will be with you here until I pass out. As usual, the page will be updated regularly and we will discuss everything related to this controversial, divisive, acrimonious and whatever-you-call-it return to democracy. Refresh the page once in a while and leave any insight or rant in the comment section. I know a few of you are about to explode, as our awkward effort to minimize abuses from both sides of the political conflicts led to very limited channels for comments.

I'm not asking you to be extremely polite in your comments, though. Please just keep in mind people think differently, and while this may not be a perfect path back to democracy, at least we Thais are making another try.

2.30 PM: Half and hour to go. Stay tune to our website for immediate results of exit polls. Pollsters have been as divided as the country as far as projections are concerned, and I have a feeling that some of them are set to lose faces big time.

Anyway, a glance at newspaper headlines today and one get an impression that life will be very hard for the People Power Party if it can't score a landslide victory. A four-party coalition government led by the Democrats is a major speculation featured on a few front pages. The key is Bangkok, though. If the Democrat Party loses in the city, such a coalition will boast anything but legitimacy.

3.10 PM: The fun, or is it?, has begun. Suan Dusit exit poll results have got all pro-PPP Nation staff in delirium.  Suan Dusit pollsters gave the PPP a staggering 256 seats, enough to form a one-party government, albeit a not-so-stable one.

It's a daring prediction by Dusit Poll. But it's a make-or-break. They are the first to annouce the exit poll results. If they are proven right, they will get a great boasting right over rivals.

3.20 pm: ABAC exit polls have the PPP winning 202 seats, compared with 146 for the Democrats. Let's put it this way, Samak Sundaravej is prime minister if Suan Dusit is right, and Abhisit Vejjajiva has a really good chance if ABAC is more accurate.

Ramkhamhaeng exit polls, meanwhile, gave the PPP 221 seats. There's still no report on the Democrats at the moment. This number, however, will put Samak in the driving seat. 

 Rumours have it that ABAC exit polls found the Bangkok race so tight the pollsters dared not release immediate results, pending further checks.

We have had some technical problems that delayed our web updates. I hope they solve the trouble soon.

3.50 pm: There are quite a few long faces in the newsroom. Now the attention has been shifted to whether the PPP will actually win the majority control in Parliament and become a one-party government. The Democrats have refused to bow out, saying as long as official counts do not confirm the PPP as winning more than 240 seats, anything can happen.

4.40 pm: Sorry, everyone. Our net server has become very unstable. A lot of updated contents have been stuck in nowhere.

First thing first, if you want to watch live votecount, click "start" on the first page that pops up once you visit our website. The vote count page is not automatically updated, so you will have to refresh it regularly.

What's very interesting now is that the official votecount shows a neck-and-neck race so far between the PPP and Democrats in the party list category.  This makes it quite a big mystery as to why the PPP is pulling away in the constituency battle.

Also, the early counts show the Democrats leading in Bangkok, somewhat contradicting the Suan Dusit poll results.

5 pm: The party list vote outlook is getting very interesting. What if the Democrats end up the winner. Of course, it's way too early now, but the Democrats are actually leading in party list count at this point. There will be heated debate over legitimacy if the PPP loses the party list war. Well, at least this makes the whole thing look a bit more exciting, amid the intitial speculation that it was going to be all-PPP.

One important note, though, when party list votes from the Northeast come in full force, the picture could look very different.

5.40 pm: Our political desk also points at the Puea Pandin Party's poor showing. This could have something to do with the unusual conflict between the constituency votes and party list votes so far. Still it's too early to tell. Anyway, if the final results end this way, will this mean some voters chose the Democrat Party in the party list ballot and went for PPP candidates in the constituency ballots? A highly unusual phenomenon.

7 pm: Our news meeting started tumultuously and ended in the same way. How the new government will look like remains a wide open scenario. It seems now that the Democrats, while losing big in the North and Northeast, can take heart in the initial Bangkok results. If the party sweeps around 25-27 seats in the capital, it will have renewed urge to fight for a chance to be the core of the next government.

And then we have the "popular vote" _ the party list outcome which as of now still favours the Democrats a bit. It's worth cautioning that a large percentage of votes from the northeastern provinces are yet to be counted.

In short, if the Democrats sweep Bangkok and end up winning the "popular vote" contest, the fight to form a government will be fierce. In fact, our own analyses have already given Abhisit a slight edge over Samak in the race for the premier post.

7.30 pm: Rumours originating from the PPP say the party has "locked up" the Chat Thai and Pua Pandin parties as potential allies. This, however, only counters earlier rumours that the Democrats had had everyone in their pocket in order to isolate the PPP. It's still a long way to go, and a long night for me, obviously.

7.45 pm: :-(     I was getting very anxious why there is not one single comment from you, so I asked someone in the newsroom to try to post a comment and there you go _ the comment section is out, part of the technical problems that have been hounding us all day. So sorry if you have tried to post something.  Talk about Murphy's Laws. I decided to do live update on the normal homepage instead of on my blog, hoping to facilitate non-blog members who may want to post some feedbacks. Poor me!!!

8.00 pm: The Democrats are still holding on to the slim party list lead. But this is amid growing bad news. Chat Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa is said to be ready to play the kingmaker, or king himself. With his support, the PPP can form the core of the new government. Is he being offered the top post too, because Samak is too divisive a figure? We should find out very soon.

By the way, here are the party list vote results in the previous democratic exercises. In 2001, the Thai Rak Thai Party won 11.6 million votes, compared with 7.6 million votes for the Democrats. In 2005, TRT won a staggering 18.9 million votes while the Democrats won just 7.2 million.

In the charter referendum earlier this year, which was generally perceived as a test of strength between the pro- and anti- TRT forces, the "yes" votes (anti-TRT) numbered 14.7 million, while there were 10.7 million "no" votes (pro-TRT).

8.35 pm: More bad news for the Democrats. Their "popular vote" lead is no more. With more results from remote areas, the PPP has taken a slim lead for the first time but the trend is the gap is set to widen.

With the only Bangkok results to content with, the Democrats' hope to form the core of the new government is fading now. 

8.40 pm: A new twist, or so it seems. A key PPP member, Chakkrapop Penkhair, alleged that leaders of Chat Thai and Pua Paendin parties have been "summoned" to the residence of Privy Council head Prem Tinsulanonda, purportedly to get advice on which party _ the Democrats or PPP _ they should support.

Chakkrapop said everyone "should keep their eyes on" development at the Prem residence.

8.50 pm: Samak has declared victory, saying his party is only about 10 seats short of getting majority control of Parliament. "The people have shown us what they think about this party," he said, asking the smaller parties to join the PPP and form the new government. He makes it clear he wants to be prime minister himself.

PPP executive Surapong Suebwonglee said national results except those in Bangkok were consistent with his party's projections. He claims capital results showed a lot of "unusual" things that were inconsistent with what his party's surveys.

9.20 pm: Democrat leader Abhisit has thanked every Thai citizen who cast his/her vote today and expressed gratitude for giving the Democrats roughly 160 seats, the highest in the party's history. What's more interesting is he hasn't conceded defeat in the race to form a government, only saying that the other parties will have to "decide what's best for the country."

It's far from a war cry, but he isn't giving up. Samak will be given every opportunity to invite the other parties to his side, but the Democrats will be monitoring the situation, Abhisit said.

9.30 pm: The situation remains uncertain. Of course, the PPP would need only 30 more seats or so to form a government with semblance of stability. Where can it get those seats from? All eyes will be on Banharn and to a lesser extent a combination of Pua Paendin, Matchima Thipataya and Ruam Jai Thai Chat Pattana parties.

To clarify something that I said earlier, Bangkok is the "key" only if the Demcorats want to assert itself as the core of the new government. If they had lost in both nationwide and Bangkok contests, I'm sure Abhisit would have conceded defeat.

10.30 pm: Will Thaksin return soon? This question will become a resounding one if Samak manages to cement his claim to premiership. He told CNN today  that Feb. 14 -- Valentines Day -- would be a good day for Thaksin to return from exile in London, but that he would have to face corruption charges filed against him.

10.35 pm: Dear Barry, thanks for pointing that out. It's my fault , too , for failing to alert you that the constituency vote count contains a few errors, which unfortunately are beyond our editorial department's control. The counting itself is fine, but the total (constituency vote category) has been wrong, and the basic info like the number of eligible voters is a shameful mistake.  The number of eligible voters is around 45 million. We have alerted the people in charge but words have to get through many mouths so let's hope for the best.

11 pm: A source who is a senior Pua Paendin member told us that his party won't back Samak. Without Pua Paendin, the PPP can't live without Chat Thai, as forming a government with the other small parties will be too risky.

Rumours _ sorry friends, you are going to hear this word a lot but I would rather share everything with you _ have it that Banharn has laid down a tough condition: If he is to join the PPP, he has to be prime minister. This condition, according to the rumours, has been supported by Sudarat Keyuraphan and Chalerm Yoobamrung. Samak, of course, won't take it.

A lot of horsetrading is believed to be going on intensely. 

11.40 pm: You must be wondering where on earth Banharn is at the moment. Well, rumours _ sorry _ have it that he is meeting with Pua Paendin leaders Suwit Khunkitti and Vatana Asavahame somewhere. Together, they have a strong leverage.

The PPP, meanwhile, is reportedly set to meet leaders of the smaller parties Monday morning. The meeting at the Radison Hotel will take place around 10 am and involve Matchima Thipataya, Ruam Jai Thai Chat Pattana and Pracharaj parties. These three little camps can offer a combined 23 seats, plus or minus 2. Too shaky. The PPP will need either Chat Thai or Pua Paendin to boost its strength.

Thanks for everyone's comments. They gave a great sense of deja vu, when visitors to our website were bitterly divided in the wake of the coup.

This election proves Thaksin's popularity among the poor remains so strong, and underlines the Democrats' failure to take any advantage from everything thrown at the Thai Rak Thai Party by the coupmakers. The Democrats, however, have recaptured Bangkok and have scored a remarkable increase in party list votes. At first glance, things haven't changed much in the political polarity, especially if you assume that the splinter parties like Matchima Thipataya and Pua Pandin won a lot of votes portraying themselves as TRT descendents.

Dec 24. 1.10 am: It took some time to register that this is Christmas Eve. You have forgetten about it as well, haven't you? Well, this just reminds us all that there's much more to life than politics. I wish you all happiness, good health and success. Merry X'mas.

I will sign off for the night giving my last thoughts on the election results. Like I said, on the surface it seems not much has changed. But if Samak becomes prime minister and he wants to carry out his controversial mission of whitewashing Thaksin, he should have taken a closer look at the numbers. The PPP, against all odds, has won this election cleanly and fairly, and has the full legitimacy to form the new government. But the much closer gap than the previous polls must tell Samak something. I just hope he's wise enough to leave the corruption cases against Thaksin alone. He must let the judges do their job and try not to interfere. The Bangkok results and the slim PPP's advantage in the popular vote should serve as the strongest caution as to what may happen if Samak tries to help Thaksin at the expense of the rule of law.

Good night everyone. I will see you in the morning.

 


 
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lan_s  24/12/2007 13:23  IP: 192.168.52.247

Good point on the right to form the next government. Fair Reporting, do not worry as so far we haven't heard any report or political party denying the right of PPP. But it is a long way to go so we have to be patient. cheers.
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Fair Reporting  24/12/2007 13:02  IP: 192.168.52.247

The real fact is that PPP had won the most number of seats as compared to the rest of the other parties. Counting this fact, PPP should be the right party to form the next Government. Anyone challenging or denying the rights of the majorities, will be doing a grave injustice to the Thai nation
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No2maew  24/12/2007 12:28  IP: 192.168.52.247

good and honest Thai??? If he is that good and honest, will he be there in London???? TRT -- the best? Common.. you must be gone to Mars. There is no TRT... the party cheated so much and has been cancelled. Thanks a lot
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TRT IS BEST for THAILAND  24/12/2007 12:02  IP: 192.168.52.247

Finally, the victory come to the best party deserved to win. Thaksin will be back. If Islamofascist can give amnesty to himself. Why not the good and honest Thai in England? Watch The old power, they will not let Thai people win easily. The old guy want control of the country in the hand of old power,old money, SAKDINA THAI. Faggot will run the coup again. This old faggot are deaf to the real voice of people.
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BB  24/12/2007 10:43  IP: 192.168.52.247

After the voting, I must said that I felt sad for Thailand. Those Thais in North part of Thailand vote for PPP who supported Thaksin. They only know how to feed themselve but don't care about the fate of Thailand. Those farmers only care about how much money they can make. Sadly, I can forecast Thailand is going to face big problems soon after samak become a PM.
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observer  24/12/2007 00:12  IP: 192.168.52.247

...and when Thaksin will pay the price of sleeping with all taxpayer money, sl?? after the dem???
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sl  24/12/2007 00:08  IP: 192.168.52.247

the democrats pay the price of sleeping with the coup generals
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Lan_s  24/12/2007 00:03  IP: 192.168.52.247

Channel 7's reporter implied that there was a meeting of Banharn at Vatana's house on Pattanakarn Road. But I'm sure what it would lead to. The reporter doesn't have more info on this.
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UN  23/12/2007 23:50  IP: 192.168.52.247

Chityy Bang, Go kiss Isarn Cook ... so that he can bring back your uncle thanksin to you to kiss your ...
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observer  23/12/2007 23:47  IP: 192.168.52.247

The PM seat is so sweet that Samak would like to taste it before he parts this world. Banharn should not get what he wishes - if the rumor is true - because he has not got so many seats.
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VeryAfraid  23/12/2007 23:43  IP: 192.168.52.247

"The question is what kind of newspaper the nation is" To Fearless, I guess it is the paper that allows us including YOU to voice opinion and we are given equal chances.
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chitty chitty bang bang  23/12/2007 23:41  IP: 192.168.52.247

i am happy for PPP and samak! bring khun thaksin back!!!ni
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UN  23/12/2007 23:39  IP: 192.168.52.247

Please do not take us twenty years back.Tell the Isarn Cook ( samak) to stay home and sell his noodles not to take Thailand backword neither try to give amensty to the 111 TRT eggheads.
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Marcus Tullius Cicero  23/12/2007 23:34  IP: 192.168.52.247

Easy to believe that kind of rumors. Samak is a liability at the moment likely to make the "horse"trading more intense. Poor horses. Some other animal comes to my mind. I prefere not to name it as not to offend anyone (of the animals I mean)
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sitizen  23/12/2007 23:29  IP: 192.168.52.247

Once brainwashed, always brainwashed.
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Marcus Tullius Cicero  23/12/2007 22:42  IP: 192.168.52.247

well, maybe I'm another stupid farang. I've been in this country for 25 years and I have seen my share of good and bad things happening, but somehow I've the feeling that the worst is still to come and will arrive soon. Is seems like a textbook case on why democracy doesn't work. It did not work in the past, it is not working now, and just because the people in charge of make democracy work (the electors) can not see farther than the 100 baht they can put in their pockets today. In general it seems like we are square one. An year wasted. Good luck to everyone in this country, Thais and Farangs alike. Hold on tight, we are in for a rough ride.
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faith in thais  23/12/2007 22:35  IP: 192.168.52.247

what are the chances that PPP will NOT be able to form a coalition government? although it looks grim, is there any ray of hope? if PPP can form the coalition government, i think more people will be "watching" them. i hope its real people power watching them as the oppostition, this time around. everyone can help be the eyes and ears of the country, and help in a good way
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Marcus Tullius Cicero  23/12/2007 22:32  IP: 192.168.52.247

ok, it looks like working well, what a disaster if we get Samak as a driver. Let's try to take with a bit of sense of humor just not to cry He should never have got a driving licence in the first place. Thank you for keeping a bit of hope alive and for the commentary
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Marcus Tullius Cicero  23/12/2007 22:28  IP: 192.168.52.247

well, trying to post a comment all day hope it works now
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Barry  23/12/2007 22:21  IP: 192.168.52.247

Dear Ed, Can you please explain the 62,000,000 eligible voters on the Nation's election stats page. Cheers
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Steven  23/12/2007 21:39  IP: 192.168.52.247

Tulshathit : Earlier in the day, I going to post this but then it could not go through. As I was saying, life will not be hard for the PPP even if it did not score a landslide but if will be harder for them if it did. There will be the military and the upper clique and cliques from the Democrat and other minor parties that will try to make sure that PPP will not be able to form the government. And It has come true to my words as Prem has summon leaders from 2 smaller parties to his residence. Remember there has never been a landslide in Thai election with the exception of TRT Thaksin. Life will indeed will be hard for Thailand and the people if there is a 4 party coalition government as it will be a government that is fragmentize unable to govern in solidarity. In Thailand small parties tend to switch allegience and I wonder how the 4 parties coalition will last before another small party switch its allegience to PPP. Now that there is a landslide for PPP their allegience does not matter much. But if they are really sincere for the country and the people, they should join PPP not for their own benefit but for reconciliation and towards the benefit of the country and people.
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Roo  23/12/2007 21:28  IP: 192.168.52.247

I wanted to send this comment earlier but your system was not working. How can you say poll results of Bangkok will determine who will form the next government. Are you implying that Bangkok represents whole Thailand. If so aren't you trying to further divide the already divided nation.
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robert  23/12/2007 21:24  IP: 192.168.52.247

It's a typical case of "som nam naa" for the Democratic party. Abhisit is the best man for the job, but if you show disregard for democracy by being in bed with the generals, it does not help the case. personally I would have loved to see Abhisit but I would not have voted for him anymore after Chuan and Suthep started pointing fingers and helping the generals. And please do not talk about Smak and corruption, Suthep seems to give lectures in how to rip off the people.
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stupider  23/12/2007 21:24  IP: 192.168.52.247

Agreed stupid - corruption is part of the culture and a given for any and all Thai governments - what matters is the other stuff they do. Thaksin got stuff done.
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A Stupid Farang  23/12/2007 21:18  IP: 192.168.52.247

10 years in Thailand has taught me alot about Asian values. First, Patronage--older brothers and sisters--it means alot and sometimes it means everything. Second, corruption is more of an economic system in Thailand than an evil. Finally, the questiion is not so much whom is good or bad as whom will share the wealth. My wife an educated Thai), son (an educated Thai), and I have benefited from the 30 baht health scheme (yes, I pay my taxes as an expatriate and accept completely the trade-off of taxes for some minor benefits). We also benefited from the loose crdit regime--we financed a beautiful house and a new car--some 40% of which we paid off by doubling and tripling monthly payments. All of this was because of the Thaksin government, the dreaded Thaksinomics. Well, I say, welcome home Thaksin. Better to have some support from bangkok than none--I mean what is better for Thai people--30 baht healthcare (admittedly the care is at times substandard) or the soldiers purchasing submarines that will be used to escort their mia noys on Loy Kratong rather than for the defensive purposes stated. I saw the Thai aircraft carrrier in Hua Hin decorated with Xmas lights and used as a perk of power and I almost vomited. Thailand is corrupt, but it is a patronage-based country--the corruption isn't evil, it is historical and cultural. That doesn't mean that cerrtain aspects cannot be remedied, they can, but that the issue is fundamentally irrelevant. What is relevant is whom shares the pie--Thaksin shared the pie. So please come home Thaksin--and even though I am a stupid, uncultured Farang, I can attest that the country folk whom voted for Thaksin feel the same. Certainly. Good luck to Thailand--you all may need a bit of luck.
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Mario  23/12/2007 21:08  IP: 192.168.52.247

seems Samak doesn't like the comments of foreign journalists (concerning cheating)?
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Steven  23/12/2007 21:02  IP: 192.168.52.247

Prem as the Privy Council Chairman should remain neutral. He has interefered in the political process
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dan  23/12/2007 20:56  IP: 192.168.52.247

Yorkie - I would of thought the option of a military coup (planned and executed by the 'educated people') is about as clueless as you can get. Ur average mair bahn or motorbike taxi understands what a step backward that was for Thailand and that it was an international embarrassment. If Thailand are not ready for a democracy - the educated demonstrate this as much as the uneducated.
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Yorkie  23/12/2007 20:47  IP: 192.168.52.247

I might be getting out on a limb here, but my feelings, as a foreigner with an outside view, is that Thailand is not really ready for democracy. A very big portion of the voters are not in touch with the bigger picture of politics, but will only consider to vote for the party paying them the most, or having the most beneficial (for them) populist promises. However hard they want to stamp out vote buying, my whole Thai family without exception have been offered payment for their votes, even in my presence. While the TRT was definitely voted in by the population, it was done by a population which had no idea what politics are about! So in the end, as we probably are seeing today, the party with the most financial means and grassroots support will always take the lead. This is not what I would consider democracy. Pretty much every educated Thai person is not happy with the situation, but voting wise they simply have no power due to them being in a minority... It's kinf of scary seeing a party taking the lead and openly declaring that they will seek amnesty for the 111 banned TRT members, and will actively seek to bring Thaksin back.
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Fearless  23/12/2007 20:33  IP: 192.168.52.247

The question is what kind of newspaper the nation is. It is far from fair, far from unbiased and far from what they claim to be independent. First of all we have to make sure that we mail from a location from which they cannot trace us. (with thanks to the rubberstamping politburo and their security law and the nation who provide our IP address) and than we read about long faces, and bad news, about the credibility of the elections (indeed low as we live still under martial law). The credibility is of the Nation is at stake. You are so intellectually lazy. Don't you guys get it? The poor do not go to bed anymore, they know they are a factor. They are tired to be told that they are dumb and uneducated. The uneducated people are to be found in Bangkok. They do not understand how a democracy works over there. The nation was reporting yesterday about "waking up the silent majority" the silent majority is not against but in favor of Thaksin. For you guys who lost touch with the real Thailand, I have not been able to find more than a very small minority in Thailand who was positive about the coup. maybe it is time to change your local wealthy pub for a karaoke, a road side foodstall or a factory to understand that the Thai people know precisely who and what they want. And what they do NOT want is the junta and more eliteit nonsense talk.
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